But even if you can hack the academic rigor required to get a PhDthere may be good reason not to pursue such a degree: A PhD takes twice as long as a bachelor's degree to complete. The average student takes 8. By that age, most Americans with mere bachelor's degree are well into establishing themselves professionally.
D July 15, at I am glad to see the popular press finally picking up the real story with phd programs. Reply D April 18, at 2: When your at a research1 institution as an undergraduate you get first hand exposure to labs and PhD programs.
These students realize pretty quickly from this direct exposure to PhD students and postdocs that getting a PhD is a poor investment of your time. Consequently, the students from these universities either go to professional school or enter the workforce directly.
These are better options. Students from liberal arts colleges, however, never get exposure to the total scam that PhD programs are.
These poor suckers end up being feeder schools to the PhD programs that cannot get better quality students from larger universities. To liberal arts students getting a PhD is still a good idea because no one ever tells them otherwise.
The data from this study appears to suggest that liberal arts schools give good education because they produce PhD students and maybe they are…. But if you realize that getting a PhD is a bad investment then the interpretation of this data is very misleading.
Reply Sally February 10, at 5: Reply Carolyn Z Lawrence February 1, at 6: In short, per capita Phd production can be somewhat deceptive. But, it is incorrect to assume or imply that students attending research universities for physics are somehow all doomed to getting an inferior education in physics compared to someone who chooses a liberal arts college.
Generalizations like that are misleading. There are research universities with superb physics programs and liberal arts colleges with terrible physics programs.
The question is not liberal arts vs. For some students, doing physics at a particular arge public research university will be the best choice.
For other students, doing physics at a particular liberal arts college is the best choice. Good undergraduate physics programs share characteristics, whether they are part of a small liberal arts college or a large state university.
Once you know what makes a good undergrad physics program or biology program, or studio art program, or English program, etc…. If anyone is interested in comparing some hard data about the size of physics programs, the data can be found here on the AIP website, along with other good information on what to look for in choosing a physics program: These schools have different missions and draw different kinds of undergraduate students.
Reply Dubious January 29, at On a per capita basis, for instance, liberal arts colleges produce twice as many students who earn a PhD in science than other institutions. Acceptance rates on average for liberal arts applicants vs.
Articles like these, which I see floating around all of the time, only serve to make me shake my head in disappointment at the apparently well-educated individuals who are often so critical of other forms of education and who still misuse and misrepresent statistics.
The education my college offers is terrific, and many students here who are seniors including myself have been accepted to doctoral programs already, but that does not equate to what you wrote. Reply celeste January 27, at 1: Do you have a link to it?
BortKutler January 27, at 5: Lets avoid it this time. RB Rizzer January 31, at 3: Reply John January 27, at 1: Amherst, for example, has a slightly higher percentage of top percentile students than UMich.
Reply That Was Zen January 26, at 5: Even though my high school kids have no idea what they want to study, let alone getting a Ph.
I would hope there are more qualitative measures beyond the no. Qualitative comparison between the liberal arts colleges and larger university is important and so is a deeper look at statistics like those quoted here. This is because a Ph. I myself have a Ph.Getting a job in industry after your PhD is an honorable alternative to an academic career.
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